Tajani: “Let us not forget the massacre on 7 October. On to the Palestinian state”

First there was Gaza, then the West Bank, then Lebanon, and now there is talk of Israel attacking Yemen. Isn't the Pope right when he says that excessive defence is not acceptable, Minister Tajani?

"Of course, defence must never be excessive, and I agree with the Holy Father, but the attack that started it all was catastrophic. I am referring to 7 October. It was a Nazi-like act, and that must never be forgotten. They behaved like Nazis at Marzabotto, which I have just visited, together with President Mattarella and Minister Anna Maria Bernini, to attend the ceremony of remembrance of that terrible massacre. I often hear about Israel's reaction to 7 October, with thousands dead and hundreds of hostages, but too often do we forget what Hamas did just a year ago. One year later, I would not want the protests and reflections on that massacre that started everything to be biased in favour of one side and to the detriment of another."

But don't you think the international community should be more forceful in demanding de-escalation from Netanyahu?

"We are demanding it with all of our might. We are for a ceasefire both in Gaza and Lebanon, and for the protection of the civilian population. We are playing our part to the full. And the G7 is unanimous on this."

Why doesn't Netanyahu respond?

"We can exert political pressure, and I assure you we are doing it very strongly, but Israel is a sovereign country, and decisions are up to its government. Our action also includes sending humanitarian aid to both Lebanon and Gaza. Food and medicine have been delivered, and are continuing to be delivered."

But aren't there delays and blockages?

"I don't think so, also because the Food for Gaza project is supported not only by the Red Cross, FAO and other international organisations, and the Palestinian National Authority, but also by Israel. As far as Lebanon is concerned, the other night I had a long conversation with Israel Katz, the Minister of Foreign Affairs in Tel Aviv, during which I insisted that there be no attacks near the Unifil military bases in the south of that country. It seems to me that the pressure is proving successful. We have been assured that there will be no such attacks. Meanwhile, we have reduced our contingent in Beirut to train the Lebanese army. The number of military personnel has dropped from over one hundred to 15. And we have invited all Italians to leave the country - the scheduled flights to Rome and Milan are full. So far, there have been between 200 and 300 Italians working in Lebanon. While there are 2000 - and even some of these are leaving - who live permanently and have families in Beirut and other cities."

How long can Italy, which is a big trading country, remain strong in this sector if the wars on its borders, whether between Ukraine or the Middle East, continue?

"Our export is going well, despite the wars. We intervened with the Aspides mission precisely to protect merchant ships from attacks by the Houthis. We also participated with Aspides in the action to prevent an environmental disaster, accompanying the oil tanker struck by Yemeni guerrillas to port in the Horn of Africa. Italy is trying to discover new markets. I can imagine how much more competitive we would be if there were no such wars. That is also why we have to work hard to make all trade routes safer."

Do you not also see that the 'two peoples, two states' scheme is becoming increasingly unlikely?

"That must absolutely remain the goal. And all parties must understand that there are no other solutions."

By 'all parties', do you mean also Israel, which is still maintaining its settlements in the West Bank?

"I don't see an alternative. And the only condition for there to be peace is to give Israel the security to live in peace and to develop, while allowing the dream of the Palestinian people to have their own state to come true. They must recognise each other, and each must do their part. That is why the international community is working on de-escalation."

What project should be put in place immediately?

"Send an Arab-led UN mission to reunite Gaza with the West Bank, involving also Italian soldiers - which we are very ready to do. It takes time to reach a solution. But to guarantee stability and peace, this is the only option. Recognising Palestine must not be a 'spite' to Israel but a serious choice to build peace. The Palestinian people have the right to their own state, and Israel has the right not to be attacked or even wiped off the map, as terrorists would like."

You mentioned the UN, but the UN seems weak and feeble.And Netanyahu has called this organisation 'an anti-Semitic swamp'.What gives?

"Considering that multilateralism is the only instrument that can be used and needs to be strengthened, a reform of the UN is needed. Enough with first- and second-class countries. This is a classification that must be abolished. This is what UN reform must aim at. One solution could be rotating the various countries to be elected to the Security Council, and Italy is clearly among them. I believe in multilateralism, but it must be effective. It must be reviewed, reformed and relaunched. We need more UN interventionism, and at the same time the G7 and NATO can and must play a leading role."

You had an important conversation with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Iran.But can you really engage that country on a path to peace in the Middle East, or is it impossible to talk to them?

"We are friends of Israel, we condemned Iran's decision to supply arms to Russia, we do not agree with many of the choices that country makes, we radically disagree on how they deny and violate human rights. But in order to build peace, Italy is talking to Iran and will continue to do so with great determination. We are asking the government in Tehran to address the belligerent motives of armed groups linked to them in Lebanon, Syria and Yemen. The doors of diplomacy must remain open."

What hope is there?

"It is a complex world, and let us keep in mind that all Sunni countries do not support Iran and their groups. There is a whole Arab context to engage with, and that can greatly help in overcoming crises."

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