Minister Shorten interview on Today Show with Karl Stefanovic

E&OE TRANSCRIPT

SUBJECTS: Aged care; Defence medals stripped; Mining pipeline, Elon Musk

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Well, historic aged care reforms are on the way this morning with 1.4 million Australians promised more support under a new deal by the Government and opposition. To discuss, we're joined by Bill Shorten in Canberra and Opposition Leader Peter Dutton in Melbourne. Morning, guys, nice to see you. Billy, to you first up, this is a big deal and might take a little while for us to wrap our heads around it, but it's long overdue.

BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Yeah, listen, and it's been a lot of work by Minister Anika Wells and congratulations to the Coalition for working with us on this. It's all about making sure that people in the future in aged care, when they're getting their funding, have got dignity, got support. The first thing also to say to people trying to wrap their head around the detail, they can go to a website, they can get each case study they need, but if you're currently in aged care, there's no change. It's a future proposition and we are going to be supporting in the future 100% of people's clinical care needs.

STEFANOVIC: It's a good thing, both sides working together on this, too. Pete, will it hold up when the reforms move through parliament, or do you anticipate moving for some changes to the legislation?

PETER DUTTON, OPPOSITION LEADER: Morning, Karl. Look, we've worked with the Government because we think it's in our national interest to do so. We've got an ageing population and we want to make sure that people have dignity in retirement and that they can go into an aged care facility. And as a - for your grandparents, for your parents, you want to know that they're being taken well care of and you want to make sure that they're getting the support that they require, but it costs money to do that. I think Bill's important point is one that we really should stress, and that is that people that are in the system now, they're grandfathered, so there's no change that applies to those people and there's a Senate inquiry that will tease out a lot of the detail and people can have their say in relation to that, but we want to make sure that we've got beds being built, because at the moment we just don't have any infrastructure being built in aged care. We've got an ageing population, early onset dementia, et cetera, and we have to deal with that.

STEFANOVIC: Still, challenges with staffing but hopefully that is sorted too. To other news, the Defence Minister has stripped medals from senior members of the military who served in Afghanistan ahead of an investigation into alleged war crimes. Billy, weren't those soldiers owed due process?

SHORTEN: Well, this is part of the response to the Brereton report. For those people who haven't been following it closely, Mr Brereton, or General Brereton, is a judge, but he also serves as the military investigator into alleged war crimes in Afghanistan. Absolutely, most men and women who served in Afghanistan did so with great distinction, but the report did uncover some things which failed, I think the standards that the Australian Defence Force set itself. What's happened is that Richard Marles, the Minister, has written to less than ten people and said that it's likely that their medals will be revoked as part of 139 recommendations we've implemented out of 143.

STEFANOVIC: Yeah, look, there's plenty around today saying they would have liked to have seen due process. Pete, you've been Defence Minister, the message this sends to our servicemen and women is pretty brutal, in part. I'm not sure how it affects morale, but I can't imagine it's great? Surely those above mid tier should have been held responsible?

DUTTON: Well, Karl, it's not a decision I took as Defence Minister and I looked at the issue very, very closely. I think Richard Marles really has done a great disservice here to the Australian Defence Force when he waits for two and a half years, he sat on this issue and he makes his announcement during the week that the Royal Commission into Veteran Suicide is released. I think there is an insensitivity there. It's why he's copped a lot of criticism from the veterans community. And to your point, if it's, if it's, you know, why is it ok to throw sort of lower ranked diggers under the bus, but those who are higher up the chain avoid any scrutiny? And the chief of the army, the chief of the Defence Force and people in between those ranks and where Richard Marles has acted here, why is there no accountability? And I think that's why the average digger is asking a lot of questions, as you rightly point out.

STEFANOVIC: And Billy, look, fortunately, we don't have to go to war, but our soldiers do and they know they have to do the right thing. They're so well trained. But you can't have soldiers, I don't think, second guessing themselves when they're making life and death decisions, right?

SHORTEN: No, I see what you're saying, Karl. We're not there in the heat of the moment, in the smoke, and the tension and trying to keep your mates safe and carry out a mission in a very difficult sort of war zone. So, I can see that point. But the issue here, that the Brereton report investigated alleged war crimes, and I also think that report did find examples, certainly to the investigators satisfaction, where the standards that we uphold and believe and go to war for hadn't been maintained. But, you know, I've not served. I understand, in a war zone, I understand that people don't want to feel second guessed. This is not quite that scenario, I don't believe.

STEFANOVIC: Let's wait and see. Billy, it must seriously irk you, this potential dirty, dirty deal with the Greens over environment law? Is Labor trying to kill new mining projects?

SHORTEN: No, listen, I'm not a fan of the Greens. That's just a matter of record, their conduct on the NDIS and a range of other matters is -

STEFANOVIC: - but you're trying to do a deal with them, come on.

SHORTEN: We've done a deal with Pete. That doesn't mean I always agree with him.

DUTTON: Every election,you only get elected off Greens preferences, what are you talking about?

SHORTEN: Petey, Petey, Petey. You know that periodically the Liberals preference the Greens. Half the reason Adam Bandt in parliament is because of you guys, so, you know, I know you think you wear a pair of angel wings and play a liar and heaven and, you know, you're always right and we're always bad. But getting to the issue of the Greens, let's just go to, and mining, Minister Plibersek's approved 40 mines and she's knocked back one. So, let's not start, you know, clutching the pearls too much here about, you know, the Greens are going to be running BHP and Rio Tinto. That's not like -

STEFANOVIC: - all right, quickly.

SHORTEN: We just want to get the balance right between jobs.

STEFANOVIC: Quickly, Pete.

DUTTON: Well, Karl, they're killing off the mining industry. The mining, the mining sector paid 350 billion of tax in the last ten years. That's more than every other sector put together. We don't pay for schools, we don't do road upgrades, we don't provide new tunnels without that tax and we've got huge demand for our resources. We haven't got the phone that we use without mining because we need all of those essential minerals and elements, and why Labor would want to kill that off is beyond me.

STEFANOVIC: All right, Bill. Just finally, the crackdown on social media laws.

SHORTEN: You know we're not killing off mining, Pete.

STEFANOVIC: I'm just going to move it on. Elon Musk reckons, Bill, that you're a fascist. Well, not you personally, but your Government. Is that true?

SHORTEN: Well Elon Musk, well, that's a little hard, considering Pete said that I'm a communist with the Greens. It's hard to be labelled some days. Elon Musk's had more positions on free speech than the Kama Sutra. You know, when it's, in its commercial interests, he is the champion of free speech and when it doesn't like it, he is, you know, he's going to shut it all down.

STEFANOVIC: You're logged in with this too, Peter fascist Dutton.

SHORTEN: He's abillionaire with a tech platform.

STEFANOVIC: What's your response to Elon? Go on, send him something.

DUTTON: I like the contrast from this week to last week where we were singing Bill's praises and now, now he's a fascist.

SHORTEN: I knew it wouldn't last.

DUTTON: And I just think it's way too early for any Australian to hear Bill Shorten talking about Kama Sutra on breakfast tv. It's too much. There are red lines, you know, I'm happy to do this program, but there are red lines.

STEFANOVIC: Yeah, all right, we'll leave it there.

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