Secretary Antony J. Blinken on MSNBCs Morning Joe with Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Willie Geist, Andrea Mitchell, Jonathan Lemire, and Mike Barnicle

QUESTION: Joining us now here in the studio in New York, Secretary of State Antony Blinken. He worked on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly to get that ceasefire proposal on the table. Also with us, NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent, the host of Andrea Mitchell Reports, our good friend Andrea Mitchell, joins us as well. Good morning to you both.

QUESTION: What about me?

QUESTION: Well, Mr. Secretary, let's start there. So this is a proposed 21-day ceasefire between Israel and Hizballah. What more can you tell us about the particulars of it and where Israel stands on it now?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Look, just take a step back for a second, Willie, and understand why this is needed and what Israel is legitimately trying to accomplish. Ever since October 7th, Hizballah in the north has been firing rockets into Israel. Israel has responded. But Hizballah was trying to create another front as Israel was dealing with the situation in Gaza. And as a result of that, some 70,000 Israelis in northern Israel were forced from their homes. Lebanese were also forced from their homes in southern Lebanon. For Israel, there is a strong, strong desire to create an environment in which people can go back home, kids can go back to school, and any country would feel the same way.

Now, we believe that the best way to get that done is through diplomacy, to get an agreement that would create a secure environment, forces pulling back from the border, people having confidence to go back to their homes. Conversely, getting into a full-scale war is not the way to achieve that objective. There's no way in that situation that people are going to be able to go back.

So you have much of the world coming together calling for this 21-day ceasefire to give us some time, to give us some space, to see if we can get a diplomatic resolution that creates that environment to get people home.

QUESTION: What do you say, Mr. Secretary - and I know you've heard this directly - to Israelis who say there is no such thing as a ceasefire with a terrorist group? Whether it be Hamas or Hizballah, they're going to continue to do that they do. It's in their charters to destroy Israel. Their goal is to wipe Israel off the map ultimately. So what is the argument to the Israelis that a 21-day break might actually lead to some kind of a peace?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Well, I think the argument is that the alternative, potentially a full-blown war, is going to be bad for everyone involved and it's not going to achieve the objective of getting people home. Israel was in Lebanon for a long time, up to 2000, 15 years, bogged down there. And yes, when they got out all of these groups were supposed to disarm. Hizballah didn't, and it has posed a threat to Israel ever since. But if we can get an agreement that at least gets them off the border, people will have more confidence, and they can get about their lives in their own country. I think what you're hearing clearly is the world wants to see it move in that direction.

The other thing is, look, if you're looking at what Israel's biggest adversary and one of ours - Iran - wants, it wants to try to bog down Israel in wars of attrition, whether that's in the north in Lebanon, whether that's in Gaza, whether that's anywhere else in the region. So don't play into that. The objective can be achieved - getting people home - without going to war.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, Prime Minister Netanyahu, influenced perhaps by his right-wing coalition, is doing exactly the opposite. He is saying that the only way to get them back into their homes is to wipe out the Hizballah command and control and eliminate them as a military threat once and for all. So he's not listening to you, and similarly there have been surprises - the pager explosions, the assassination in Tehran of the Hamas leader. Every time you think you're close to a ceasefire in Gaza and trying to resolve the Lebanon problem, Israel apparently does something that ignores U.S. leverage and U.S. pleas.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: In fact, Andrea, if you go back to October 7th, one of our primary objectives, of course making sure that Israel did what was necessary to make sure that October 7th could never happen again, working to make sure that the men, women, and children in Gaza who have been caught in this horrific crossfire of Hamas's making, got what they needed to be better protected, to get the assistance that they needed, but also to make sure to the best of our ability that this conflict doesn't spread, that we don't have another front. And on repeated occasions we were very close to that, and a combination of American deterrence and American diplomacy avoided a full-scale war. This is where we are now. We want to make sure that what we're seeing over the last days doesn't evolve that way, just was on multiple occasions we were able to do that after October 7th.

QUESTION: Now, clearly Hamas has been the biggest problem. They can release the hostages. They could end this right now. They started it. But Israel, our closest ally - and we provide them more weapons than anyone in the world - keeps also raising objections every time you think you're close to the finish line. You say that you have 15 of 18 clauses finished, but it's those last three that keep getting - those are the toughest.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Yeah. Well, by definition -

QUESTION: You're in the red zone.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: By definition, when you're in the red zone, yeah, that's -

QUESTION: Right.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Those are the toughest yards to get. And yes, we have - this is on Gaza and on the ceasefire there that we've been working on. We have a document. We've got 18 paragraphs. As you've said, 15 are fully agreed between Israel and Hamas. Those last three we've been working on. The challenge we have right now is it's unclear whether Hamas is serious about concluding an agreement.

Now, if we're also able to get the ceasefire in the north, that may create some space and maybe even some momentum to try to get the Gaza ceasefire, the Gaza hostage deal, over the finish line. And there too, the benefits to everyone involved are very clear: get the hostages home, get massive relief into the Palestinians who need it, take down the violence, create the possibility of having an enduring peace and security for people in Gaza and for Israel. We can see all of those benefits, but we have to try and get that over the finish line.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, you have accurately pointed out the horrors of October 7th, the anniversary coming up quickly. You've accurately pointed out the lethal terror that is Hamas and Hizballah, and you've accurately pointed out the impact of war on that region and, sir, globally. It's so brutal and noisy that the world hears the war. My question to you is: What do you say when you're asked about the seeming indifference of the Israeli army to civilian casualties?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: What we're seeing throughout the region in all directions is unfortunately because of the trauma that's been inflicted - October 7th, the trauma that's been inflicted on Palestinians since then - one of the challenges is overcoming dehumanization, making sure that people continue to see the humanity in the other and act accordingly.

Look, we just had an incredibly successful polio vaccination campaign in Gaza in the midst of this conflict. Five or six hundred, a thousand young Palestinian children were vaccinated. I think that demonstrates not only what was possible with regard to polio but what should be possible in terms of getting more humanitarian assistance to people. It's doable. And we are strongly, strongly, strongly pressing and urging the Israelis to do more.

Now, it's an incredibly challenging environment. You've got an enemy that hides within the civilian population, in and under schools, mosques, apartment buildings. You have conflict raging. You've got lawlessness; you've got looting. You've got all sorts of chaos that makes it difficult for the humanitarians to do their jobs. But this polio campaign demonstrated that it is doable, it's possible, and we're going to be pushing on that.

QUESTION: Mika.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I'm curious - are you aware, are you getting any information on the status of the remaining hostages, the conditions they're in, how many are even alive?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Look, there are, to the best of our information, many hostages in Gaza alive and who we desperately want to bring back to their families, bring back to their loved one, get out. And this remains for us a priority, including of course for the American hostages who are there. So my number one responsibility, the President's number one responsibility, is to them. And that's why, among other things, getting this ceasefire agreement done is so essential to get them home. We know they're there. We want them back.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, you said that a ceasefire would benefit everyone. Does that include Benjamin Netanyahu?

QUESTION: Yeah.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Look, I believe it does because, Joe, again -

QUESTION: Do you think Benjamin -

QUESTION: Does he see it that way?

QUESTION: Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu believes the ceasefire actually benefits him, or does he see that as the end of his career and a time when he has to face indictments?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Well, look, Joe, I can't speak for him. I'm going to put myself in his head or anyone else's for that matter, but I'd say two things. First, when it comes to the ceasefire with Lebanon and Hizballah, clearly it benefits really everyone involved. But looking at it from the Israeli perspective, their number one objective, as I said, is to make sure that those 70,000 Israelis who have been forced from their homes, had their homes destroyed, their villages destroyed by fire coming across the border from Hizballah - this is the way to get them back home, to make sure that they can go with confidence knowing that they won't be in the line of fire.

So - and this is something that's really animating Israeli society. In fact, there's probably as much, if not more, focus on Lebanon and on making sure that these 70,000 Israelis can go back home than there is on Gaza. So I think someone who delivers that, yes, that's going to be to their benefit.

QUESTION: This morning, we've been talking about the worst-case scenario in the Ukrainian war with Russia, the possibility that Vladimir Putin would use nuclear weapons. Let's talk about the worst-case scenario in the Middle East. And speaking as a conservative, that's what we usually do. We look at the worst-case scenario and try to work back from that to try to stop it from happening. James Baker once said a president's first priority is not having a nuclear war erupt on their watch. Let's talk about the Middle East. Worst-case scenario, Iran finally decides it is going to get involved and help Hizballah. What does a regional war with Iran fully engaged look like in the Middle East, not only to Israel but to the region and the world?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Look, this, Joe, is exactly what we need and are working to prevent, because a full-scale war in the Middle East involving not just Iran but all of its many proxies, bringing in other Arab countries, having lots of implications for us, for the many tens of thousands of Americans - hundreds of thousands of Americans who live in different countries in the region, that's a picture that I don't think anyone wants to look at. And again, as I said to Andrea a few minutes ago, this is exactly what's been animating us since October 7th - not only Gaza, not only making sure that October 7th never happens again, but trying to make sure that this war doesn't spread. And on repeated occasions, we've come close to that happening.

But our engagement, our diplomacy, our deterrence, with the forces that we have deployed to the region prevented this from going over the brink and getting into full-scale war. That's why we're so focused on the ceasefire. But again, it's not just us. It is now the G7 countries, the European Union, the leading Arab countries, everyone speaking with one clear voice about the need to go - to get that ceasefire in the north.

Similarly, in Gaza, the quickest path to getting things done that everyone wants, that benefit everyone, would be through the ceasefire that we've been working to negotiate.

QUESTION: So Mr. Secretary, I want to turn you to Ukraine just briefly if you have a reaction. Just in the last hour or so, Prime Minister Netanyahu's office put out a statement saying that the ceasefire talks between Hizballah and Israel he deemed incorrect, and he said that the IDF would continue fighting with, quote, "full force."

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Yeah. So look, again, I can't speak for him. I can just say that the world is speaking clearly for virtually all of the key countries in Europe and in the region on the need for the ceasefire. I'll be seeing Israeli officials later today here in New York. We've been, of course, talking to them throughout the course of this week. We've been engaged with everyone in the region, the entire team - the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, our Middle East hands Brett McGurk, Amos Hochstein, Barbara Leaf - all of us at the President's direction working on this. So I think what we're saying, what the world is saying, is very clear, and we'll be looking to work with the Israelis and all the parties throughout the rest of the day.

QUESTION: So on Ukraine, President Zelenskyy meeting with President Biden at the White House today. We know his primary ask is going to be able to use U.S.-made missiles with longer range deeper into Russia. Is the U.S. going to give that authorization?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: So, Jonathan, every step along the way ever since the start - actually, before this started, when we saw the Russian invasion coming - we've wanted to make sure that Ukrainians had what they needed to effectively defend themselves. We got them Javelins and Stingers before the Russians came in. They were able, as a result, to repel that Russian aggression, prevent Russia from running over the country, erasing it from the map. Every day since, as necessary, we've adapted and we've adjusted depending on the battlefield, depending on what Russia was doing and where it was doing it. So we're going to continue to do that.

The President is going to see President Zelensky a little bit later today in Washington and is going to hear from him on this victory plan that he's putting forward. We're looking - and we'll look very carefully at that. I heard Matthew Brzezinski talking a little bit earlier on the program about some of the things that are working very effectively, and he's exactly right. The drones have been extraordinarily effective. We've just made an investment of about $1.5 billion immediately in the production of Ukrainian drones. That's going to produce another 10,000 drones for Ukraine over the next six months. When used the way we've seen them used, that's very effective.

We want to make sure they have what they need to deal with the Russian aggression and make sure that Ukraine is in a position of strength, either as necessary to keep fighting, or if there is a negotiation, that it is able to approach that negotiation from a position of strength.

QUESTION: And just briefly before we let you go, Mr. Secretary, we've heard, particularly from the Republican presidential campaign, getting louder now, talk yesterday that perhaps President Zelenskyy is here to hustle the United States for money, that we ought to withdraw, that this - the former President Trump to get a deal with Putin the day he's elected. Can you articulate for viewers who may wonder why so many taxpayer dollars are going to Ukraine and why you believe it is important that the United States stand with Ukraine?

QUESTION: Willie, there are two things going on here. There's an aggression against Ukraine and against the Ukrainian people, and I think when any of us see one big country trying to bully a smaller one, we want to do something about it. But more fundamentally for the United States, the other thing that's being aggressed here are the very principles at the heart of the international system that are so necessary to keeping the peace. We're here in New York at the UN General Assembly. The United Nations was created after two world wars to make sure there wouldn't be a third. Countries came together; they agreed that there are basic rules. You can't violate the sovereignty of another country, its territorial integrity. You can't simply go in, try and erase its borders, dictate to another country what its choices will be. That's what's happening in Ukraine.

If we allow that to go forward with impunity, then we open a pandora's box. It's open season for any would-be aggressor around the world. They say Putin gets away with it, I can get away with it. That's a world of conflict, a world we don't want.

And two other things. This is not the United States doing it alone. First, it's the Ukrainians doing the fighting with 50 countries supporting them who are actually contributing more collectively than we are. And those dollars we're spending, most of those dollars are being spent here in the United States building the weapons that the Ukrainians need. President Zelenskyy was just in Scranton thanking the folks who are making some of the munitions that are helping Ukraine defend its freedom, but also defend our freedom, because that is a front line in the fight for freedom. That is a front line in making sure that we have a world that's not riven with conflict, not just in Europe but in many other places far afield from Europe.

QUESTION: Final thought to you, Andrea.

QUESTION: The nuclear threat now again from Putin, does that worry you?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Look, it's totally irresponsible, and I think many in the world have spoken clearly about that when he's been rattling the nuclear saber, including China in the past. So I would just say especially to do that now while the world's gathered in New York, including talking about the need for more disarmament, nonproliferation, I think that's going to play very badly around the world.

QUESTION: All right, we'll let you get back down to the UN. United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Mr. Secretary, thanks for your time this morning.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Great to be with you.

QUESTION: We appreciate it.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Thanks.

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