Frost Brown Todd LLC

08/15/2024 | Press release | Distributed by Public on 08/15/2024 09:02

The Best Lawyers in America® 2025 Includes 208 Frost Brown Todd Attorneys

  • The Best Lawyers in America® 2025 Includes 208 Frost Brown Todd Attorneys

Aug 15, 2024

Additional 69 attorneys named "Ones to Watch"

Two hundred and eight Frost Brown Todd (FBT) attorneys have been recognized by The Best Lawyers in America® for 2025. The title of "Lawyer of the Year" went to 14 of those attorneys. An additional 69 were included in The Best Lawyers:Ones to Watch® list.

As one of the most credible and definitive guides to legal excellence in the U.S., Best Lawyers divides attorneys by geographic region and practice areas. Honorees are reviewed by their peers, ranked based on their professional expertise, and undergo an authentication process to make sure they are currently practicing and in good standing.

The Lawyer of the Year award is presented annually to a single lawyer in each practice area and designated metropolitan area. Those who earned the "Ones to Watch" distinction are attorneys with outstanding professional excellence who have typically been practicing for five to nine years.

Below is the list of FBT attorneys who were honored for 2025. The year indicates the first year the attorney was included on the list. The numbers 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35 denote that the attorney has hit a milestone and been listed for that many years, and an asterisk (*) denotes an attorney that is listed for the first time.

Charleston, WV

Vivian H. Basdekis (2021)

Litigation - Banking and Finance

Carrie J. Cecil (2024)

Public Finance

Amy King Condaras (2012)

Banking and Finance
Commercial Finance
Public Finance

Carte P. Goodwin (2021)

Appellate Practice
Litigation - Intellectual Property

Craig Griffith (2019)

Tax

William Swann (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Health Care

Jared M. Tully (2019) (Lawyer of the Year: Litigation - Banking and Finance)

Banking and Finance
Commercial Finance
Commercial Litigation
Insurance
Litigation - Banking and Finance
Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants

Alex Zurbuch (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Cincinnati, OH

Deborah S. Adams (1983) (Lawyer of the Year: Employment - Management; Lawyer of the Year: Labor - Management)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

David S. Bence (2008)

Banking and Finance
Commercial Finance

John F. Bennett (2018) (Lawyer of the Year: Patent)

Litigation - Intellectual Property
Litigation - Patent

Kai Bitter (2024)

Corporate

Matthew C. Blickensderfer (2013) (Lawyer of the Year: Litigation - Antitrust)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Antitrust

Julie M. Bruns (2022)

Litigation - Labor and Employment
Workers' Compensation - Employers

J. Aaron Byrd (2024)

Trusts and Estates

Alexander Czanik (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Intellectual Property
Litigation - Intellectual Property
Litigation - Patent

Chad N. Eckhardt (2024)

Health Care

Sandra Eismann-Harpen (*) (Ones to Watch)

Banking and Finances

Ariel M. Fox (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

James Charles Frooman (2014)

Commercial Litigation

Thomas L. Gabelman (2007)

Construction
Litigation - Construction

Neil Ganulin (2003)

Corporate
International Mergers and Acquisitions
Securities / Capital Markets
Securities Regulation

Ronald E. Gold (2003)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization

William C. Gullett (2013)

Corporate

Christopher S. Habel (2006)

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental

Colleen M. Haas (2016)

Real Estate

Adam P. Hall (2006)

Commercial Litigation

Hongye Han (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Health Care

Lucas V. Haugh (*)

Patent

Stephen N. Haughey (2003)

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental
Water

William D. Hayes (2003)

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental

John S. Higgins (2014)

Construction
Litigation - Construction

Chris Kim Kahn (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Environmental

John C. Krug (2011)

Real Estate

Clayton Kuhnell (2016)

Patent

Eric Landen (*)

Real Estate

Patricia D. Laub (1997)

Trusts and Estates

Kim Martin Lewis (2007)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization

Kimberly K. Mauer (2007)

Banking and Finance

Kevin N. McMurray (2003)

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental

Martin E. Mooney (1995) [30]

Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships)
Tax

Richard L. Moore (2021)

Employment - Individuals
Employment- Management

Beth Schneider Naylor (2015) [10]

Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Michael J. O'Grady (2008)

Banking and Finance
Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Commercial Finance
Litigation - Bankruptcy
Real Estate

Nilesh Patel (2024)

Advertising

Eric M. Robbins (2011)

Patent

Karlyn A. Schnapp Ph.D. (2012) (Lawyer of the Year: Patent)

Patent

Jeffrey S. Shoskin (2009)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

David A. Skidmore, Jr. (2005) [20]

Employment - Management
Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Michael J. Stegman (2014)

Trusts and Estates

Andrew B. Ulmer (2020)

Patent

Paul M. Ulrich (*)

Litigation - Patent
Patent

Matthew Vale (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Intellectual Property

Vance V. VanDrake III (2016)

Patent

Alicia Visse-Kroger (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Immigration

Seth A. Voit (*)

Patent

Donald L. Warner III (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Public Finance
Real Estate

A.J. Webb (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Insolvency and Reorganization

Steven M. Wesloh (2010) [15]

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental

Patrick Woodside (2021)

Public Finance

George E. Yund (1997)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Columbus, OH

Yazan S. Ashrawi (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Scott J. Bent (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Banking and Finance
Real Estate
Tax

Thaddeus M. Boggs (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Eminent Domain and Condemnation
Land Use and Zoning
Municipal

Aaron T. Brogdon (2024)

Commercial Litigation

John I. Cadwallader (2003)

Real Estate

James S. Gray (2020) [5]

Real Estate

William M. Harter (2014)

Insurance

Phillip K. Hartmann (2020) [5]

Land Use and Zoning

Alyson Hurley (*)

Banking and Finance
Real Estate

Emmett M. Kelly (2020) [5]

Public Finance

Russell J. Kutell (2013)

Litigation - Real Estate

Jeffrey N. Lindemann (2012)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Samantha Quimby (*)

Litigation - Intellectual Property

Frank J. Reed Jr. (2023)

Government Contracts
Government Relations Practice

Harlan W. Robins (2006)

Banking and Finance
Litigation - Real Estate
Real Estate

David A. Rogers (2005) [20]

Real Estate
Project Finance
Public Finance

Stephen P. Samuels (2007)

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental

Noel C. Shepard (2017)

Workers' Compensation - Employers

Kevin Shook (*)

Advertising

Zackary L. Stillings (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Thomas V. Williams (2006)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management

Stephen P. Withee (2014)

Construction

Dallas, TX

Thomas F. Allen, Jr. (2023)

Appellate Practice

Austin Conner (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Banking and Finance

Fred Gaona III (2024)

Employment Law - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

T. Ray Guy (2006)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Banking and Finance
Litigation - Securities

Nicole E. Karam (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Amy E. LaValle (2021)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Intellectual Property
Litigation Patent

Kevin J. Maguire (2022)

Commercial Litigation

I. Bobby Majumder (2018)

Corporate
Energy

Rebecca L. Matthews (2021)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights/Insolvency and Reorganization
Litigation - Bankruptcy

Ed McQueen (2022)

Banking and Finance
Corporate
Real Estate

Edward W. Moore (*)

Private Funds / Hedge Funds

Ha-Vi Nguyen (*) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Daniel P. Novakov (2009) (Lawyer of the Year: Trusts and Estates)

Litigation and Controversy - Tax
Trusts and Estates
Tax

Mark A. Platt (2011)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Litigation - Bankruptcy

Clay B. Pulliam (2015) [10]

Real Estate

F. Colby Roberts (*) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Denver, CO

Dustin S. Charapata (2024)

Real Estate

Jana L. Willsey (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Jennifer Eiteljorg (2023)

Real Estate

John W. Kellogg (2017)

Business Organizations (Including LLCs and Partnerships)
Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions

Keely C. Downs (2022)

Real Estate

Rebecca B. Givens (2024)

Real Estate

Steven J. Gockley (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Construction

Mamie Ling (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation
Construction Law
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Timothy Swanson (2023)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Bankruptcy

Florence, KY

Rachael Chamberlain (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Tax

James A. Dietz (2008)

Health Care

Robert D. Hudson (2006)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management

Gregory S. Shumate (2013)

Corporate

Houston, TX

Kenneth R. Breitbeil (2022)

Commercial Litigation
Ethics and Professional Responsibility

Kenneth Wayne Bullock II (2024)

Admiralty and Maritime

Courtney B. Gahm-Oldham (2023)

Commercial Litigation
Energy

Indianapolis, IN

Thaddeus R. Ailes (2019)

Real Estate

Eric Baker (2021)

Corporate

Michael T. Bindner (2014)

Corporate

Edwin J. Broecker (2014)

Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions

Terrence L. Brookie (2005) [20]

Commercial Litigation
Construction
Litigation - Construction

Matthew J. Clark (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Intellectual Property

A.J. Correale (2014)

Copyright

Darren Craig (2024)

Commercial Litigation
Energy

Thomas L. Davis (2003)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants

Jeffrey S. Dible (2011)

Litigation - Trusts and Estates
Litigation and Controversy - Tax
Trusts and Estates

Thomas M. Hanahan (2009)

Banking and Finance
Commercial Finance
Real Estate

Kandi Kilkelly Hidde (2013)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - ERISA

Nicholas Huang (*)

Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships)
Corporate

Adam S. Ira (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Insurance

Amy Stewart Johnson (2024)

Municipal

Kristopher N. Kazmierczak (2023)

Litigation - Labor and Employment

Joshua N. Kutch (*)

Construction
Litigation - Construction

Eric Lamb (2020) [5] (Lawyer of the Year: Patent; Lawyer of the Year: Trademark)

Copyright
Patent
Trademark

Tyler S. Lemen (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Construction
Health Care
Medical Malpractice - Defendants

Constance R. Lindman (2020) [5]

Copyright
Trademark

Denise Barkdull Lund (2023)

Public Finance

Jeffrey J. Mortier (2010) [15]

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Kevin Charles Murray (2010) [15]

Administrative / Regulatory

Anthony W. Overholt (2021)

Civil Rights
Commercial Litigation
Government Relations Practice

Nicholas C. Pappas (2010) [15]

Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Eric A. Riegner (2008)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Randall R. Riggs (2003)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Evan Rutter (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Matthew R. Schantz (2014)

Patent

Kevin C. Schiferl (2005) [20]

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Blake Shelby (2024)

Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Katherine M. Slisz (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Maggie L. Smith (2009)

Appellate Practice

Robert B. Thornburg (2016)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants

Cameron S. Trachtman (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Clarissa Walstrom (*) (Ones to Watch)

Mergers and Acquisitions

Alexander P. Will (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Government Relations Practice

Amy Wilson (2024)

Employment - Management

Heather L. Wilson (2020) [5]

Employment - Management

Lexington, KY

Kathryn A. Eckert (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Administrative / Regulatory
Energy
Health Care
Natural Resources

Jeffrey L. Hallos (2003)

Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions

Warren J. Hoffmann (2003)

Corporate
Energy
International Mergers and Acquisitions
Mergers and Acquisitions
Mining
Natural Resources

Barry D. Hunter (2010) [15]

Commercial Litigation

Brad Keeton (2023)

Appellate
Commercial Litigation
Health Care

Bryan K. Mattingly (2013)

Mergers and Acquisitions

Jonathan S. Miller (2021)

Government Relations Practice

Susan J. Pope (2011)

Mass Tort Litigation / Class Actions - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Barton T. Rogers (2011)

Trusts and Estates

Paul E. Sullivan (1995) [30]

Commercial Litigation
Corporate
Litigation - Banking and Finance

Deborah Holland Tudor (1997)

Employee Benefits (ERISA)

Louisville, KY

Sara L. Abner (2024)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Litigation - Bankruptcy

Dale E. Ahearn (1993)

Project Finance
Real Estate

Jennifer Bame (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Labor and Employment - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Jennifer Y. Barber (2019)

Litigation and Controversy - Tax
Tax

Nathan J. Becht (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Nathan L. Berger (2013)

Banking and Finance

Jamie S. Brodsky (2023)

Banking and Finance
Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization

Tabitha Buchanan (*) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

S. Bradford Butler (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate
Tax

Amy Burnette (2024)

Banking and Finance
Real Estate

Jeremiah Byrne (*)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants

Theresa A. Canaday (2013)

Commercial Litigation

Richard S. Cleary (2003)

Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Alyssa C.B. Cochran (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Appellate

Benjamin Coffman (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Steven. M. Crawford (2010) [15]

Litigation - Construction
Mass Tort Litigation / Class Actions - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Peter M. Cummins (2024)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Real Estate

Robert C. Cummings III (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Amy F. Curry (*)

Real Estate

Scott Dolson (2006) (Lawyer of the Year: Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships))

Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships)
Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions
Tax

John S. Egan (2007)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Litigation - Bankruptcy
Public Finance

Amanda England (2024)

Real Estate

Elizabeth Ethington (*) (Ones to Watch)

Litigation and Controversy - Tax

Nathaniel Fowler (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Michelle Fox (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Insurance
Personal Injury Litigation - Defendants
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Lauren D. Gadient (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation
Real Estate

Kaitlyn George (2022)

Real Estate

Mackenzie Giannotti (*) (Ones to Watch)

Banking and Finance

James A. Giesel (2005) [20] (Lawyer of the Year: Securities / Capital Markets)

Banking and Finance
Corporate Governance
Corporate
Private Funds / Hedge Funds
Securities / Capital Markets
Securities Regulation

C. Edward Glasscock (1991)

Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions

Thomas C. Gleason (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Banking and Finance
Litigation - Securities

Nicolaus Gordon (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Public Finance

Samuel G. Graber (*)

Tax Law

John W. Gragg (2018)

Banking and Finance
Real Estate

Miles R. Harrison (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Timothy J. Hagerty (2007)

Environmental
Litigation - Environmental
Mining
Oil and Gas

Jeffries Mock Hamilton (2021)

Employee Benefits (ERISA)

Barry A. Hines (2006)

Banking and Finance
Real Estate

Kaitlin E. Hizny (*) (Ones to Watch)

Employee Benefits (ERISA) Law

Elizabeth B. Hurley (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation
Real Estate

Christopher Johnson (2022)

Commercial
Insurance
Litigation - Insurance

Edward M. King (2007)

Banking and Finance
Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization

Akesha Kirkpatrick (*) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Maria Kroeger (*) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Carl Lammers (*)

Employee Benefits (ERISA) Law

Douglas W. Langdon (2013)

Insurance
Litigation - Insurance
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

John T. Lovett (2001) (Lawyer of the Year: Employment Law - Management)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management

Alan K. MacDonald (2006) (Lawyer of the Year: Corporate Governance)

Corporate Governance
Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions
Securities / Capital Markets
Securities Regulation

Darnell McCoy (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Melanie McCoy (*)

Closely Held Companies and Family Business

James Nichols (2024)

Real Estate

Patrick R. Northam (2007)

Corporate Compliance
Corporate
Energy
Mergers and Acquisitions

Thomas P. O'Brien III (2016)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Intellectual Property
Trade Secrets

Joshua M. O'Bryan (2024)

Mergers and Acquisitions

Andrew Palmer (2024)

Personal Injury Litigation - Defendant
Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

D. Patton Pelfrey (1983)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Gene F. Price (2013)

Employee Benefits (ERISA)
Insurance

Kendal Price (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

D. Christopher Robinson (2021)

Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

C. Michael Shull, III (2024)

Construction

Bryan J.K. Sisto (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Corporate

Cory Skolnick (2021)

Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Banking and Finance
Litigation - Real Estate

Mark F. Sommer (2003) (Lawyer of the Year: Tax)

Litigation and Controversy - Tax
Tax

Alexander G. Staffieri (2021)

Banking and Finance
Corporate Governance
Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions
Real Estate
Venture Capital

Thomas Staffieri (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Banking and Finance
Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships)
Mergers and Acquisitions

Cynthia L. Stewart (2003) (Lawyer of the Year: Information Tech)

Copyright
Information Technology
Trademark

R. James Straus (1993) (Lawyer of the Year: Banking and Finance; Lawyer of the Year: Mergers and Acquisitions)

Banking and Finance
Corporate
Financial Services Regulation
Franchise
Mergers and Acquisitions

William G. Strench (2005) [20]

Corporate Governance
Corporate
Private Funds / Hedge Funds
Securities / Capital Markets
Venture Capital

A. Thomas Sturgeon, III (*)

Litigation - Real Estate

Griffin Terry Sumner (2021)

Appellate Practice
Insurance

Laura Theilmann (2021)

Public Finance

Jacob Vissing (*) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Samuel Wardle (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Appellate Practice

Robert C. Webb (2007) [15]

Litigation and Controversy - Tax
Tax Law

Allison Weyand (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Product Liability Litigation - Defendants

Geoffrey M. White (2015)

Real Estate

Jason C. Williams (2023)

International Mergers and Acquisitions
Mergers and Acquisitions

C. Laurence Woods, III (2003)

Employment - Management
Labor - Management

Kathleen Biggs Wright (2021)

Litigation - Labor and Employment

Brian D. Zoeller (2013)

Construction
Real Estate

Nashville, TN

Blake Bars (*) (Ones to Watch)

Real Estate

Patricia Kirkwood Burgess (*)

Commercial Litigation

Lucas T. Elliot (2013)

Commercial Litigation

Carl Eppler (*) (Ones to Watch)

Litigation - Intellectual Property

Jeremy R. Goolsby (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Commercial Litigation

Sarah N. Lowe (*)

Employee Benefits (ERISA) Law

Brian S. Masterson (2023)

Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships)
Tax

Mekesha H. Montgomery (2013)

Employment - Management

Courtney Rogers Perrin (2024)

Mergers and Acquisitions

Robert V. Sartin (2006)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Litigation - Bankruptcy

John S. Wagster (2023)

International Mergers and Acquisitions

Pittsburgh, PA

Jordan Blask (2024)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Real Estate

Michael Brewster (*)

Oil and Gas

Kevin Colosimo (2021)

Construction
Energy
Oil and Gas

Edward J. Grattan (2023) (Ones to Watch)

Corporate
Mergers and Acquisitions

Katherine Koop Irwin (2022)

Health Care
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Ron G. Jones (2024)

Commercial Litigation

Leah R. LaFramboise (2024)

Energy
Real Estate

Derrick L. Maultsby Jr. (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Business Organizations (including LLCs and Partnerships)
Intellectual Property

Sloane B. O'Donnell (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Bankruptcy and Creditor Debtor Rights / Insolvency and Reorganization
Commercial Litigation
Litigation - Bankruptcy
Litigation Construction

Tara Hopper Rice (2024) (Ones to Watch)

Energy
Oil and Gas
Real Estate

Orange County, CA

Ruben Smith (2022)

Real Estate

Washington, D.C.

Daniel T. Falk (2022) (Ones to Watch)

Patent

West Chester, OH

Kevin L. Cooney (2013)

Banking and Finance

Alexander L. Ewing (2023)

Labor Law - Management
Litigation - Labor and Employment

Charles B. Galvin (2021) (Ones to Watch)

Litigation - Labor and Employment
Litigation - Real Estate

Scott D. Phillips (2010) [15]

Commercial Litigation
Land Use and Zoning
Litigation - Land Use and Zoning
Litigation - Municipal

W. Joseph Scholler (2021)

Litigation - Labor and Employment

E. Todd Wilkowski (2019)

Closely Held Companies and Family Businesses Law
Construction

(Year) First year the lawyer was listed in any practice area.

(*) Lawyers who are listed for the first time in Best Lawyers.

[#] Anniversary plaque for which lawyer is eligible (5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30 years).