Improving HCP marketing through understanding of the impact of AI on EHR workflows

In this MM+M podcast interview, Damon Basch, VP of Strategic Partnerships at Veradigm, discusses how AI is being integrated into Electronic Health Records (EHR) to improve provider workflows, reduce provider burnout, and enhance patient outcomes. He highlights how these AI-driven tools provide better, more tailored data, which can be used to create more effective omnichannel marketing strategies. After listening to the podcast, you will gain a better understanding of the growing interest in using EHR data for more accurate and compliant marketing, along with how the industry is gradually overcoming challenges related to the integration and use of this data. The demand for omnichannel marketing is growing, and as the data tools improve, the future of EHR marketing will continue to evolve and drive innovation.

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Full Interview Transcript

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Now we're using AI to help our physicians with the physician experience to take some of the friction out of their practice, reduce fatigue, drive better patient outcomes. But what we're getting is better data in better data out, more data, which can be used appropriately, de-identified and HIPAA compliant to develop omnichannel solutions that are more tailor made for the physician, for the specific patient encounter and for point of care and conversion along the way. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Hi, and welcome. This is Marc Iskowitz, editor at large for MM+M. Welcome to this MM+M Post Trend Talks podcast titled Improving HCP Marketing through Understanding of the Impact of AI on EHR Workflows. And we're sponsored by Veradigm. At MM+M's Spring installment of Trend Talks, which took place on May 22nd in New York City, a group of a-level marketers from biopharma companies, large and small, gathered along with commercialization partners to discuss some of this industry's foremost challenges in a closed door round table setting. One of those challenges had to do with AI driven enhancements to EHRs and how those enhancements affect HCPs who are using those EHR environments on a day-to-day basis for their patient encounters. And today we're going to talk about how those enhancements can, at the end of the day, enable marketers to engage better with healthcare providers. And here with me to dive into this new and evolving EHR playbook is Damon Basch. He's Vice President of Strategic Partnerships at Veradigm. Damon, welcome to the MM+M podcast. 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Thank you, Mark. Always a pleasure. Nice to chat with you again. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Absolutely. Pleasures all mine, as it always is when you and I talk. So a couple months ago, we floated the idea that a lot had happened, obviously in the AI space, but also vis-a-vis the electronic medical record from the point of view of things that are designed to make physician's lives easier when they're using the EHR for patient care, making it more efficient, ultimately decreasing physician burnout. And Veradigm is a software company first and foremost, and I wanted to get your take on what are the main AI enhancements that we've seen to EHR at this point in the evolution. 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

So first, if an omnichannel marketer is listening to this, the first question they might ask themselves, given how we're going to enter into the conversation is what this means to me. Because I'm going to spend some time with you talking about not just Veradigm, but what EHR providers are doing to use AI tools to enhance the functionality, features, workflow and experience of a physician. But when we get to the end of this story, you'll see that there is definitely connective tissue between a physician's AI enhanced experience and what that means for the ability of an omnichannel marketer to communicate more effectively, to target more effectively, to measure more effectively. So stay tuned for a few minutes as we get through all of that. And I think at the end of that story, you'll see a lot of benefit. But Marc, when I think about AI and omnichannel and EHR, there's a very different thought process and frankly, a very different set of priorities that come to bear for us as an EHR software provider than say, a digital product that is born and bred just to deliver consumer focused solutions or provider focused solutions that are not necessarily endemic or clinical.    I mean, the most obvious difference is that Veradogm's focus is on the provider's clinical experience, first and foremost through our software. And any AI driven innovation starts there. Interestingly, I think this provider first approach leads to marketing applications down the road that are more refined and perhaps more well met by those interested in omnichannel HCP marketing. And I do want to explain that, but I also want to take some pauses and see if you have any questions about that concept. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

No, that makes perfect sense. I mean, as you said it beautifully, you're provider first, so you're seeing the data that are coming off of that patient encounter and then you could sort of look to model omnichannel off of that. So what are some of the most sort of salient data points that you're seeing coming out of that patient encounter data? 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Well, so let's talk about first about how we're trying to pump in new features, functionality, and innovation. What drives that? And then that will lead to an answer to your question. So most people don't know this, but the very first thing that we think about when we're trying to design new features and AI driven features in an EHR is what we have to do. So what do I mean by that? I mean, EHRs are dictated by Center for Medicare and Medicaid service, the High Tech Act, the office of the National Coordinator for Health IT. So first and foremost, that's what we are focused on in our roadmap. First, there are benefits to the marketer down the road from this, which you'll see as we get into it, but some examples might be electronic prescribing of a controlled substance or prior authorization and so on. Now, the next level is what I call customer driven enhancements. 

In other words, it's not a marketer saying, we want to do this. It's a provider customer, a software user telling us this is what we need for our practice, and that's the next priority for us. So that could be such core uses around user experience, user interface, how to navigate dashboard view, communicate, report in a tool that they're using six plus hours a day for 20 patients plus a day. And we can drill down on AI there. And we're delivering some of those enhancements already. So one example would be scribing. So many of our physicians are saying, we want less time on the keyboard, more time facing our patients. And so AI driven scribing is a tool that is very much appreciated, but there's a net result of that for the marketer that is beneficial. So an example would be we're getting structured data that is spoken language into an EHR and structured data has all sorts of applications for building audience quality and all sorts of real world data applications potentially for targeting as well. 

We'll talk about that AI driven scheduling optimization. A patient who has not come in for a screening that is required or has a gap in care. Well, the physician's schedule has an open spot. And for an independent practice, having an opening in a schedule means revenue lost. So they're constantly trying to fill their schedule with the right kinds of patients who require certain treatments. AI can help with that too, and does today. Other AI applications can include clinical decision support, not clinical decision making, but support with a human element intact clinical coding. And the list goes on. So now we're using AI to help our physicians with the physician experience to take some of the friction out of their practice, reduce fatigue, drive better patient outcomes. But what we're getting is better data in better data out more data which can be used appropriately, de-identified and HIPAA compliant to develop omnichannel solutions that are more tailor made for the physician, for the specific patient encounter and for point of care and conversion along the way. 

And then the last one if I can, is really what the market tells us they want to do. So the interesting thing about sitting where we sit is that we don't always have to be the designers of new AI innovation because other companies, and again, this is not just us, this is EHR in general, are trying to connect to our base. And so when we get 20 calls from San Francisco based startups that have scribing technology, all of a sudden we realize that there's a lot of investment in scribing technology, and maybe that's something that we need to look closer at or prior authorization for medical benefit, or companies that are building synthetic data models or clinical trial research organizations that are trying to find rare disease patients or patients that are eligible for trials. So the market tells us where there is interest, where there is funding. And so we try and marry that as kind of the third tier after government, after customer driven market telling us this is something that is viable, can help providers in their practice and is commercially interesting as well. So hopefully that helps to kind of get a sense of how we're viewing AI in the world and prioritizing it in the world. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

That was terrific to get your view on EHR and some of the different AI driven enhancements that you've added, sort of bringing us forward, sort of a potted history of the government mandate to most, if not all practices do incorporate or utilize any EHR now thanks to that high tech act. And then you have obviously a lot of customer driven demand, and then you have what the industry is wanting in terms of finding patients for clinical trials and that kind of thing. So we'd love to hear more about how we also saw in our own data this year's HCMS Healthcare Trend Marketer survey, 53.8% described big data slash AI as a significant challenge while 61% cited leveraging analytics as a significant opportunity. So I'm wondering how you anticipate applying that in your forward looking AI enhanced marketing strategy. 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

There's a couple of ways of looking at this. One of them is that there is a gap in the data that's being used out there by the folks in the business who are focused on targeting physicians in a clinical environment around EHR data. Generally speaking, they're using lagging data like claims data, and then they're using probabilistic models to say perhaps this is a physician perhaps treating a certain patient type. But with the data that we have at our fingertips, we're able to be much more deterministic. This physician is not using lagging data. This is a physician who's in a specific type of encounter, again, de-identified and HIPAA compliant. So we can deliver targeted media targeted interventions in a much more effective way. So that's one is we can work with the data with our partners on our own to develop better audience quality. That is real time. 

And I think there's a lot of power in that, particularly down at the bottom of the funnel. And then the other kind of AI thought processes, the different types of data we can use that have never been used before for targeting at the point of care. I'll give you one example of that. So part of what we're doing with AI is processing unstructured data. So think about things like lab values. Think about things like SOAP notes, which are the subjective objective assessment and plan notes that a physician is typing into a keyboard when they're meeting with a patient. There is an enormous amount of value in that data. In fact, 70% of the data in an EHR is unstructured. So think about a world where we're able to say, well, this patient has a diagnosis of let's say Alzheimer's, but we don't know if it's moderate or severe. 

If we don't know that, we don't necessarily know as a marketer what types of tools we should be giving that physician to make appropriate decisions for that patient. Or psoriasis severity or comorbidities. Rare disease, a patient could be complaining that they're out of breath and they could have a diagnosis of COPD, but there could be 13 or 14 other data elements that were captured in unstructured data that were never before available to ensure that the physician either on the clinical side is getting the information they need to close a gap in care. But on the marketing side to understand that this physician should be aware of therapies, courses of treatment that are appropriate based upon data that's never been there before. And so that's the direction that we're stepping into at point of care and a paradigm using AI enhanced tools, 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Right? So that new data provide obviously new data points that you can activate against based on an AI driven workflow. And as you said, bring to attention, bring to doctors' attention based on that data treatments that might not have been aware of or diagnosed. But every day we see new diagnostic and techniques advancing, whether it's Alzheimer's disease, the cardiology space, et cetera, et cetera. And to the extent that these are in guidelines written into guidelines, all the better that can be enforced, so to speak, through the EHR or not. So that's really fascinating to hear how you can help bring that to physician's attention. One thing that was raised at the discussion amongst some of our pharmaceutical colleagues was that the compliance aspects of EHR, you talk about bringing something to doctor's attention. Were you aware in your notes, we noticed this? Were you aware of this test or this modality is available? Can you speak to where it kind of crosses the line, so to speak? That was one thing that was a point that was brought up. How do you know, and I'm sure you get this question probably from brands that you deal with. 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Well, I would say next to pharma, EHR has as much of a compliance and privacy infrastructure relative to pharma, if not more so. The good news is that as a software provider for clinicians and as a business associate of the provider, we have the most comprehensive compliance oversight that you could possibly imagine. So in that sense, it's a safe place because we're working with governance that ensures that it is. But I'd also say because of the data we're working with, you're able to have inclusion criteria or exclusion criteria that makes sure that you are working in a safe space for your brand and that it's on label. Think of an example of a diabetes class that is also used for atrial fibrillation that is also used for chronic kidney disease that has a benefit for patients who are overweight or BMI over 30. And you have to kind of thread the needle to ensure that you're promoting the brand for the right type of physician, treating the right type of patient with a profile and perhaps even a flow sheet that indicates that this is the right medication for them. 

So when you're outside of an EHR and when you're using data that is not so specific, it's a little bit spray and prey, which can work when you're trying to go top of funnel and reach the largest audiences as generically as possible, but doesn't work when you're dealing with a specific clinical error and a specific type of practice and a physician who writes and treats a specific way. So from that standpoint, it's a very safe and compliant place to be and can be made as safe and compliant as you want it to be from the standpoint that pharma turns the dials on the inclusion and exclusion criteria, and that's the right way to do it. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Yeah, so within the EHR environment, one could have theoretically more control over that compliance aspect. So absolutely interesting. Let's get back to the other framing plot that we were talking about in terms of what do these advancements in AI and ai, excuse me, and new data mean for a marketer to be more targeted at the bottom of the funnel? Can you address that a little bit more in terms of when we layer on the EHR? 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Well, again, we have new data types that we've never had before to build out our targeting cohorts, but also to report outcomes. And so for an omnichannel marketer, the gold standard of course is do I spend a dollar and return three? What is my ROI or what is my ROAS, which is an expression I hate for the money being spent. But with AI driven data, we're able to look at more subtle signals as to whether or not marketing is actually driving towards an intended outcome, not just a script as important as that is, but looking at data based on how the practice is treating certain patient types and the choices that they're making around certain brands in ways that they've never been able to look at it before. It's one thing to look at a piece of claims data and look at a yes no analysis of whether a practice is writing war. 

It's another to see if they're changing their writing based on certain patient types, certain populations, certain pricing pressures upwards or downwards. And I think the data is allowing us to do that in a really critical way. Again, at point of care, understanding all of that data for streaming tv somewhat important. You can look at lagging data, but when you're looking at the practice and the patient and the encounter, you want to be able to look at that level of granularity and segmentation to really understand what good looks like aside from or complimentary to just to spend $1 and get three in return in Rx. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Yeah, and you addressed the measurement aspect there as well. So that really allows you to track whether all the efforts on the marketing side are building toward conversion of some sort, 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

What you're saying. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the big obstacles really is that there is all this new data, but marketers are kind of struggling, might be a strong word, but they're figuring out how to ingest all of this data and how to harmonize it with all the other data that they're getting that they're used to using to build out their targeting and their performance measurement and an omni-channel or multi-channel strategy. So that's a challenge too, because with all of this new data and there's more of it and it's more robust and rich and diverse, they aren't necessarily able to understand how to onboard it and how to put it to good use. And so there's almost a lag on the omnichannel capabilities relative to the AI driven data output that's occurring. And eventually you'll see the two meet more. But that's what I'm hearing from people who are trying to work with this data. They understand how valuable it is, but they also need to understand how to play with it responsibly and productively. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Sure, sure. One of the point from the discussion that we had a couple months ago, there was discussion about how there's a growing awareness of, say, the streaming media, social media, but appreciation for the a r is still relatively low. It's kind of the sentiment that I heard amongst our pharmaceutical colleagues. Where when and how do you see that changing? What kind of efforts are you doing to change the narrative there to do more education, and when do you see that the switch getting flipped in the minds of marketers? 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

I mean, it's getting flipped. I think the folks who were in the room that we were talking to is a small sampling, but I can tell you not just from our own experience, but from our colleagues and our competitors, frankly, that the demand is absolutely increasing. And there's a few ways that I can tell. One of them is obviously an n of one, looking at our organization and seeing through the RFP season, the volume of brands, the diversity of brands that are investigating deeply EHR and asking smarter questions. I can see the agencies developing centers of excellence that are getting sharper and sharper along the way. Organizations like Point-of-Care Marketing Association that are exploding with membership applications. And then also on the programmatic side as well, there's another demand side platform a week that reaches out to us and wants to know how they can meet the demand and their client's interest in HCP at point of care. 

Something that I never would've dreamed of even a year ago, when you have these non-endemic platforms that are saying, Hey, we want HCPs a point of care. Not saying we can always go there, but just the demand side of that equation is telling me that point of care has reached an inflection point. There's been more entrance into the market in the past six months to a year as well. So I think it's now known that it is an integral part of an omnichannel plan, and we see the budgets increasing. We see more plans that have a point of care and EHR component to them than ever before. So in that sense, I'm encouraged, and I think all ships rise with these new entrants as well, and as audiences are getting smarter, we welcome that because it's a complicated space, but it doesn't have to be. I mean, we're here to support education and making good decisions around it. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

And you had mentioned that earlier, the point about how EHR is becoming a bigger part of omnichannel marketing plans, and that is one of the things that pharmaceutical marketers are kind of challenged with these days from a larger perspective, obviously, is making these shifts from multichannel to omnichannel. So this is, they're in that frame of mind. And so I think a sense that I got was that they were open to this as well. From that standpoint, where is this going in the future? Where are we headed in terms of either advances on the data front or in sort of using leveraging EHRs to engage better with HCPs? Where do you see this heading? 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Well, I think that the tools for working with the data are getting better every day. I've seen, again, programmatic is one example of that. We're seeing budgets shift over to programmatic, and I think that can work in an EHR world. Our savviest customers are still coming to us for consultative solutions that use triggers and structured data for more sophisticated bottom of the funnel conversion. But we're seeing dashboarding. We're seeing data integrated into platforms that can be used in real time by buyers to drive efficiencies in the buying process, to drive efficiencies in the measurement process. And so we're a part of that. And I think some of the other point of care players are too, trying to meet the buyers where they are not necessarily delivering the best dashboard or buying tool the world has ever seen, but feeding into them. And then, like I said, enhancing targeting capabilities by leveraging new types of data in more interesting and powerful ways. 

So I think the next year is going to see more of that, and the more folks start buying into point of care and EHR, the smarter they get, the more diverse their requests will be for ways to do it better, and they'll tell us how to improve as well. So it's kind of a really interesting time for point of care. It's a lot of fun. 12 months from now though, that's what I see. I see more data, better tools to manage the data better targeting and measurement of campaigns in the space, and it becoming more common, basically. Not something that is kind of an afterthought or a leftover budget type of scenario, but an integral part of every plan. Because if you don't have pull through and conversion, then you don't have a plan. And I think that's more commonly understood and appreciated than it was in the past. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Great. Well, Damon, this has been fascinating. I do want to give you the last word here about EHR as a channel of point of care, as part of the omnichannel marketing mix. What do you want to leave our listeners with? 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

Don't be scared of it. Embrace it. There are plenty of good folks out there at Veradigm and elsewhere who can help you understand how to do it well and show you what good looks like, and there's a lot of exciting development to come in terms of what we're capable of doing in an EHR. So we look forward to sharing that with you in the time to come. 

Marc Iskowitz, MM+M:

Awesome. That was great. I want to thank you for helping to explain how new data points are helping marketers to optimize their EHR use and the overall buying mix. As you say, it's a great opportunity to achieve some bottom of the funnel engagements with HCPs, and there's a lot going on there. It's definitely a space to keep an eye on. Anyone who has any questions about EHR can go to veradigm.com or obviously reach out to Damon directly. Damon, thanks so much for joining us. It was a fascinating conversation. 

Damon Basch, Veradigm:

My pleasure. Thanks, Marc. 

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