Transcript of Special briefing on the fifth India-USA 2+2 Ministerial Dialogue (November 10, 2023)

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: A very good afternoon to all of you. Thank you very much for joining a very special media briefing on the occasion of the 2+2 ministerial dialogue with the United States of America. We are here at this slightly different venue at the Sushma Swaraj Bhawan and I thank you all for coming and joining us. To give you the sense of the conversations that have taken place today morning, we have the privilege of having with us here Foreign Secretary Sir, Shri Vinay Kwatra as well as Defence Secretary Sir, Shri Giridhar Aramane. Also joining us Ambassador to US, Shri Taranjit Sandhu as well as Additional Secretary looking after America's division, Shrimati Vani Rao. I would request Foreign Secretary Sir and Defence Secretary Sir to make opening remarks after which we will take questions from the media. Sir, the floor is yours.

Shri Vinay Kwatra, Foreign Secretary: Thank you very much, Arindam. My colleague and friend, Defence Secretary Giridhar Aramane, Ambassador Sandhu, again good friend and our Ambassador in Washington DC, Additional Secretary Vani Rao, friends from the media.

As Arindam just said, we have just now concluded a very rewarding and a substantive 2+2 dialogue, the fifth edition of this dialogue between India and the United States. The meetings today and the atmospherics surrounding the meeting were all indicative of the enduring commitment of the bilateral partnership but equally importantly our deSire to work together to expand this partnership further and to deepen it more. You are all aware of the intensity of the diplomatic engagement between India and the United States in recent years including this year in particular. We have had two very highly successful Heads of State at the government visit. Honourable Prime Minister had a historical visit to the US in June this year and most recently we had the honour of welcoming President Biden on a successful visit to India on the occasion of the G20 summit.

The collective outcomes of Honourable Prime Minister's visit to the US and President Biden's visit to India have really given us a strong leadership driven momentum to bolster, to strengthen, to expand this relationship much further.

In today's 2+2 discussions, the principles on both sides, Honourable Raksha Mantri ji, External Affairs Minister on the Indian side, Secretary of State and Secretary of Defence on the US side, undertook a comprehensive review of our bilateral relations. We discussed of multiple partnerships. After I finish, my colleague, Defence Secretary will speak to the defence partnership part, defence and security cooperation part of this relationship. But besides that, the trade and investment partnership, the technology partnership, partnerships relating to the emerging area of critical and emerging technologies, value chain and supply chain securitization of different products and services, partnership in the field of space, our continuing engagement in the field of mineral securities through the mineral security partnership framework are common efforts in combating terrorism. These all and much more formed part of the overview of bilateral relationship that was undertaken by the principles earlier in the 2+2 dialogue.

In addition, the principles also focused on and deliberated on the ongoing regional developments. They, of course, discussed the common challenges, the shared challenges that both India and the US face, but also how to work more strongly to harness the opportunities that exist in many of the regions of the world.

If I was to highlight a few of four or five specific themes under the regional discussion, one was our growing cooperation on the connectivity side, particularly including through the India-Middle East-Europe economic corridor. As you are all aware, that was launched on the sidelines of the G20 summit in September this year. Continuing and growing cooperation under the Quad framework. Our partnership, of course, in the Indo-Pacific. How a perspective on India's leadership of the global south and what value proposition that brings to the India-US relationship, etc. These were some of the areas which we focused on in our, the principles focused on in their discussions in the 2+2 held today. Sure, I thought I was loud enough and didn't want somebody to say lower down the volume.

Today's dialogue has actually helped both India and the US to energize the multifaceted India-US cooperation and reaffirmed our partnership, the objectives and the goals inherent in it. We are grateful to the principles for guiding our efforts to elevate the India-US relations. Later in the evening, there would be call on the Honourable Prime Minister by the four principles on both sides. With these words, I would stop and would request my colleague defence secretary to speak on important segments of 2+2 earlier today.

Shri Giridhar Aramane, Defence Secretary: Thank you. Vinay, Terry, Vani and Arindam and friends from media. The visit to India of Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defence from US is when the defence ties between the two countries are the strongest. We had a very successful visit of our Honourable Prime Minister in June this year in which many new initiatives were struck. These initiatives have to be taken to their logical conclusion. This 2+2 is in a way continuation of the important steps taken during that visit.

We in the 2+2 meeting shared our common and convergent interests and shared our mutual goals, especially in the regional and global scenario when the situation is very volatile. The visit of the dignitaries from US is of great significance. It offers an opportunity to review the security and see how the upholding of international law and humanitarian assistance can be looked at very closely and in a mutually comfortable fashion. We have seen the convergence of strategic and economic interests over a period of time. In fact, many times our strategic interests are subserved by our economic cooperation and co-dependence. Especially in the field of technology, our cooperation has gone to a new level.

Yesterday there was an investor meet both from US and India. The innovative ecosystem had a very deep dialogue. The investors and the innovators had a heart-to-heart talk under the direction of the DIU from US and DIO of Ministry of Defence India. This partnership will give the necessary dynamism for Indian industry, enabling them to become parts of the global supply chain.

Today the two principles, in fact four of them, had a very frank and in-depth discussion covering the bilateral relationship in a comprehensive fashion as Vinay has explained. In a sense, the defence cooperation has become a rock-solid support to the bilateral relations between the two countries. The potential collaboration in emerging domains for the civilian commercial use as well as for the strategic use also was a topic of common interest.

How the defence industries can intersect each other's interests and promote each other in this particular context of strong bilateral ties was also a matter of great focus. Our extensive engagement has yielded important results. This meeting will contribute to giving a momentum to the defence industry roadmap which was recently finalised. We have a common vision of free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific and a rules-based global order throughout the seas in this world. Our partnership is of critical importance to peace and stability in our immediate neighbourhood but also in other regions connected to us. I thank Vinay and his team for organising this 2+2 in a very efficient fashion. Thank you.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Thank You Sir. I will now open the floor for questions. Ground rules, please identify yourself and the organization that you represent. Also, we will limit it to one question per person and we will also have to bunch a few questions given the paucity of time. May I start with you ma'am here? Microphone is coming to you.

Samira Hussain:Samira Hussain with BBC News. Can I ask if Israel, the conflict between Israel and Gaza came up in your discussions and what can you tell us about what those discussions were?

Rishikesh:Sir Rishikesh, PTI se. Kya China ka jo border aggression hain aur China aur Bhutan ke bich mai jo border issue chal raha hain uspe bhi batchit hui hain 2+2 mai, ya phir jo bilateral hua defence ministers ke beech mai?

[Question in Hindi: Approximate translation] Sir Rishikesh, from the PTI. Has there been a discussion in the 2+2 dialogue regarding the border aggression by China and the ongoing border issue between China and Bhutan? Or was it part of the bilateral discussion between the defence ministers?

Pia:Hi. Pia with the Print. Did the India-Canada diplomatic spat feature in this two plus two dialogue? Thank you.

Sanjeev Kumar Barua:Hi. I am Sanjeev Kumar Barua from The Week. During the talks, was the ongoing conflict in Israel being seen as a dampener to the connectivity plan between India, Middle East and Europe?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:If there are any other questions on these topics, perhaps we could take them together. Anybody has a question related to these? Then maybe it is easier to answer them. Okay. Yeah. Please.

Sudhi Ranjan:Sir, Sudhi Ranjan from the Bloomberg, Sir. On the India-Canada issue, Sir, if you could give us a clear understanding what was the discussion and whether there was a renewed demand for India to join the investigation. If so, what was India's reply, Sir? Thank you.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Anybody else has related questions related to these topics? Okay, Go ahead.

Aayushi Agarwal:Sir, Aayushi Agarwal from ANI. Also, on this India-Canada row, was there also any discussion on the withdrawal of Canadian diplomats since U.S. has earlier expressed concerns regarding this Canadian diplomats from India?

Abhishek Jha:Sir, Abhishek Jha from CNN News 18. Did the discussion also have anything with the U.S. intelligence, which apparently was the reason on the basis of which the Prime Minister alleged intelligence? Did you talk about the intelligence sharing also?

Vishal Pandey:Sir, main Vishal Pandey hoon Zee News se. Kya is mulakat mai Israel-Hamas yudh par charcha hui? Aur kya ceasefire ko lekar bhi koi batchit hui hain?

[Question in Hindi: Approximate translation] Sir, I am Vishal Pandey from Zee News. Was there a discussion on the Israel-Hamas conflict in this meeting? And has there been any discussion regarding the ceasefire as well?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Sir, with this, I will pass on the questions.

Shri Vinay Kwatra, Foreign Secretary:Yes. Thank you. Let me first take up the bucket of questions relating to India-Canada, whether it came up for discussions, and if it came up for discussions, in what form it came up. Withdrawal of diplomats, renewed demand for investigations, et cetera, et cetera.

Look, insofar as Canada is concerned, we have been having very consistent conversation with all our friends and partners. And our position on this matter has been enunciated, explained in full detail at multiple locations, including in the weekly pressers that Arindam hosts. And the thrust of our conversation with our partners, no different today than it is at any other forum. It is essentially that, look, we have core security concerns, and I'm sure you all aware of the recent video that has surfaced from one such individual, which poses a…I think it was Gurpatwant Singh Pannu's video, which presents a very serious security concern for the Indian interest. And we have made our position very, very clear to our friends and partners, and I think they understand and appreciate that sense of where India comes from.

On the question of conflict between Israel and Palestine, I think three, four thoughts behind different questions on this, one of which relates to whether it came up for discussions, what were the perspectives.

Aapne Israel-Hamas yudh ke bare mai baat ki, ceasefire ke bare mai baat ki, woh ek paripesksh prashna ka…

[Answer in Hindi: Approximate translation]: You asked about the Israel-Hamas conflict, about the ceasefire, about one of the perspectives of the question…

And then there was another thought with regard to this conflict. Look, this is naturally, as I said, that among the regional developments, the three set of things which came up for discussion, it included, of course, the developments in the Middle East. Both sides shared their perspective of how, of their concern, how they look at the situation, where various elements of the developing situation, et cetera. Our position, India's position on this, is well known to you. It also came up in discussion, and I think certain elements of how both sides look at the situation come. From India's perspective, we have always stood for a two-state solution, early resumptions of dialogue. You are also aware of, very early on, when the current hostilities started, India put out a tweet condemning the horrific terrorist attacks on Israel on October 7. We have always advocated zero tolerance for terrorism.

Besides, there is also the angle of humanitarian assistance in the given situation. You are aware that India has already sent about 38 tons of humanitarian assistance to the region to address this, the humanitarian situation which is there. We have asked for strict observance of international humanitarian law, de-escalation of the situation, and, of course, also condemned the civilian casualties where they have occurred. The sharing of perspective between the principles was built around these parameters in the discussions.

Jahan tak PTI ka prashn tha China Bhutan ko lekar, China Bhutan ka jahan tak prashn hain ya china se jude baki pure paripesksh ka prashna hain, toh China ki aachar sahinta keshtra mai keshtriya paripeskha mai kya hain, kaisi hain woh sab mudde jo hain dono pakshon ke bich mai vistrit roop se jo hain unpe vartalaap hua tha. Specific kin chizon pe kam, kisi pe jyada, but China ko le ke vartalaap dono deshon ke bich hua tha.

[Answer in Hindi: Approximate translation] Regarding the PTI's question about China and Bhutan, as far as the question of China and Bhutan is concerned or the question on perspective related to China is concerned, detailed discussions took place between both sides in the domain of code of conduct of China in the regional context. The conversation delved into detailed discussions on specific issues, some less emphasized, others more, but both sides held discussions regarding China.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Thank you. Next round of questions. Yeah, please, go ahead.

Ajay Banerjee: Good afternoon, Sir. I am Ajay Banerjee, I work in the Tribune. My question is to the Defence Secretary. Sir, was there a discussion on the engine F-414, the last time you had a discussion about that, and any progress on the MQ-9B drones? And thirdly, Sir, has the U.S. offered a land strike vehicle to us, the Stryker, if I may name it? Thank you.

Sanjeev:Sir, I am Sanjeev from News24. I wanted to know whether the topic of the release of eight ex-Navy personnel in the Qatar right now was also discussed? Will America use its good office to help us?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Yes Huma…Perhaps before we go to Huma, anybody else in the defence part of it related to this? Because we talked a couple of these questions. Anybody else has a defence-related question? If not, I will go. You have a defence-related question? Yeah, okay, Sir.

Sudhi Ranjan:Sir, your question for the Defence Secretary, Sir, Sudhi Ranjan from Bloomberg, Sir. Any additional details to the infantry vehicles that discussions are on? Is there an agreement that is there that you could tell us about? And also, any other means that you have discussed on hastening the engines coming to India? Any other discussions you have had on the jet engines, Sir?

Anju Nirwan:Good evening, Sir. This is Anju Nirwan from TV9 Bharatvarsh. My question is with the Defence Secretary. Sir, jis tarike se bharat aur america ki defence deal lekar ke lagatar baat ho rahi hain aur Predator drone aur jo engine ko lekar bhi jo deal hui hain, abhi jo discussion hue hain kya usko lekar ka aage charcha badhi hain? Predator drones ki agar hum baat karain toh bharat ko woh kab milne ki sambhavana hain? Kyuki lagatar agar hum threat ki baat karain toh bharat ke paas do taraf se threat hain china ki taraf se, eastern ladakh border agar hum baat karain ya western commands ki agar hum baat karain, toh dono taraf se threats hain.

[Question in Hindi: Approximate translation] Good evening, Sir. This is Anju Nirwan from TV9 Bharatvarsh. My question is directed to the Defence Secretary. Sir, given the ongoing discussions regarding the defence deal between India and America, including the deal for Predator drones and engines, have there been further talks on these matters? If we specifically talk about the Predator drones, when can India expect to receive them? Because, if we discuss threats, India faces threats from both sides - be it from the eastern Ladakh border concerning China or the threats from the western commands.

Shri Giridhar Aramane, Defence Secretary:As I mentioned in the opening remarks itself, we have a very thriving defence cooperation between the two countries. While the purchases have been going for quite some time, co-development and co-production have been the focus during last few years. Under that, as you know, during Prime Minister's visit to the U.S., the E414 was agreed to by the U.S. government. Under that, we are finalizing the commercial arrangement and the necessary legal requirements are being put in place. So this is on track. It will happen as was originally scheduled.

Regarding the MQ-9B HAIL i.e high altitude long endurance, we have some understanding. We have given our request, letter of request has gone there and they have to respond. The US company has to take clearance from their government and come back to us. Meanwhile, we have necessary capability to take care of our immediate threats.

Regarding the infantry combat vehicle, this is a part of the defence industry cooperation roadmap between the two countries. The provision under this roadmap is to co-develop and co-produce machinery, equipment, weapons required by the two countries. So any cooperation in this sector will happen when Indian military's needs are finalised specifically and then they arrive at a production plan. So the initial offer on several infantry combat vehicle systems has come from US. We have expressed our interest in discussing further to take the co-development and co-production part ahead. So this will take some time, we will work, our teams will work, industrial and military teams will work with the US industry and defence teams and come out with a concrete plan in this regard. Thank you.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Thank you Sir.

Huma Siddiqui:Sir, I am Huma Siddiqui from the Financial Express. Just wanted to know what was discussed in the space cooperation. We have already signed the Artemis Accord. So any project identified? And will they help us in building the space station which Prime Minister Modi had announced recently?

Yeshi Seli:This is Yeshi Seli from The New Indian Express. Was Bangladesh a part of the discussions you had, especially considering the fact that US has been very concerned about free and fair elections in Bangladesh and India too. You know, we have the rising influence of China is also a point of concern.

Vijayalakshmi:Sir, Vijayalakshmi hoon India TV se. Israel-Hamas pe puchna chahti hoon, halaki pahle round mai aap jawab de chuke hain, lekin hindi mai kya Israel-Hamas ko lekar charcha hui aur bharat ka kya rukh tha, kyuki yudhviram ko lekar lagatar jo hain bat ho rahi thi.

[Question in Hindi: Approximate translation] Sir, I am Vijayalakshmi from India TV. I would like to ask about Israel-Hamas. Although you have already provided an answer in the previous round, could you please share the details of the discussion on Israel-Hamas in Hindi and India's stance on it, as continuous discussions were happening regarding the conflict?

Emerson:Good Afternoon. Emerson from Taiwan. I want to ask if the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait issues were discussed in by the Ministers. Thank you.

Kallol:Kallol from the Hindu. Just coming back to the issue of Hamas since a colleague just mentioned it. Just a specific question here. Is the Israeli concerns about Hamas that Israel has been taking up with India, did it feature in the dialogue, especially was India asked to ban Hamas as a terrorist organization? Did this issue come up during the talks?

Sandhya:This is Sandhya from ET. Sir, I just would like to know a bit around the semiconductor cooperation that we are having with US. Is there any plan for co-development also in the semiconductor? Please, thank you.

Reza:Reza from the Hindustan Times. Question for the Foreign Secretary. Given the fact that the US Ambassador has already announced that President Biden has been invited to the Republic Day celebrations as a guest, was there any discussion on that and whether that has been accepted?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:Thank you, Sir.

Shri Vinay Kwatra, Foreign Secretary:On the space cooperation part, you know, you are all aware that this has been a very strong area of India-US partnership. Multiple segments to it, particularly following the signing of Artemis Accords by India during Prime Minister's visit, which allows us a new dimension of commercial space cooperation. I think the two sides would be setting up a working group, which would have both, of course, ISRO, NASA, and other US governmental entities to take forward our cooperation. Partnership in Artemis Accords already opens up the civilian outer space exploration area. The other area of partnership on which considerable discussions have taken place in recent months is our engagement on the human space flight program for International Space Station. Naturally, these are ongoing discussions, and the relevant agencies from the two sides will continue to hold the discussions to further progress the cooperation on this matter.

You know, Bangladesh, as I mentioned, you know, extensive discussions took place on different regional developments in South Asia, in other parts of the world also. Insofar as Bangladesh is concerned, we shared our perspective very, very clearly. It is not our space to comment on the policy of a third country. I think when it comes to developments in Bangladesh, elections in Bangladesh, it's their domestic matter. It is for the people of Bangladesh to decide their future. We, as a close friend and a partner of Bangladesh, we respect the democratic processes in Bangladesh and will continue to support that country's vision of a stable, peaceful, and a progressive nation that the people of that country seek for themselves. We were very clear in sharing our perspective on how we look at our situation in different parts of the world. And that includes Bangladesh with the U.S. side during these discussions.

On the Taiwan question from our friend, you know, as I mentioned, we did discuss very extensively regional issues. And we can say that, as Defence Secretary also mentioned in his opening remark, that India stands for a free, open, and inclusive Indo-Pacific, peaceful Indo-Pacific, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific, and India and U.S. share a vision of upholding the freedom of navigation and also, of course, the overseas flight. That's the context in which the regional discussions in that part of the world were discussed.

Vijayalakshmi ji aapka Israel-Hamas wala prashna tha, main pahle hi uska uttar ek prakar se de chuka hoon, ke Israel ke sandarbh mai us kshtra mai jo ho raha hain uske sandarbh mai jo vartalaap hui, uska paripesksha tha, maine bataya ki bharat ki jo hamesha ye position rahi hain, two state solution ki, paripesksh woh tha. Humanitarian assistance ka paripekshya tha, waha par jo aatankwad ghatna hui uska paripesksa tha. Civilian causality hue uska paripesksh hain. Toh Israel Palestine ke mudde ko le ki dono deshon ki bich mai jo varta hui woh in 3-4 muddo ke paripeksh, iske ecosystem ke around build karke ki gayi.

[Answer in Hindi: Approximate translation] Vijayalakshmi ji, your question about Israel-Hamas has already been addressed. The discussion which happened in the context of the situation in Israel, its perspective and I mentioned that India has consistently maintained a position supporting a two-state solution, that was the perspective. The discussion also encompassed humanitarian assistance, context of the terrorist incidents that took place there, and the context of civilian casualties that happened. So the dialogue on Israel and Palestine between the two countries revolved around the ecosystem, the context of these 3-4 issues.

Look on the semiconductors issue. It's an area of cooperation which is actually relatively new, but very promising and very extensive. When the Honourable Prime Minister had travelled to the U.S. in June, many of the conversations had taken prior to that. But during that visit, there was extensive engagement, not just with the U.S. leadership. You would recall that during Honourable Prime Minister's visit, there was a very strong tech dialogue which was held at the White House. So not only with the leadership, but also with the U.S. business leadership, the commercial leadership. And the results of that have been all visible to us within the short span of the last three, four months. You would know that company Micron, for example, has broken ground already for an establishment that leads us to greater semiconductor cooperation. Our discussions with the AMD company, our discussions with the U.S. companies with regard to the training of the skilled personnel, again relating to the semiconductor space, capacity building. Semiconductor space is not a monolith which is limited to, let's say, only chip manufacturing, which is of course often most talked about. There are elements which relate to the stages which are precursor to the chip manufacturing. Our cooperation with Micron is one of the important segments of that. Training and capacity building in that space is a very, very crucial area of semiconductor. That's an area on which there is a very intense, strong, and very wide base of discussion between India and the U.S., both involving the two governments because it does have some regulatory aspect, but also involving the businesses on the two sides. So on and on, an area which has actually shown strong achievement just within the span of the last four to five months, and we are confident that the two plus two discussions which are concluded today will give it further impetus and drive it much faster. Thank you.

Shri Vinay Kwatra, Foreign Secretary:In so far as the question relating to Qatar is concerned, you would have all heard Arindam speak with regard to it in his presser yesterday that India has already filed an appeal and this is not a matter of discussion between India and the US.

On the invitation, you are aware that such high level visits are announced at an appropriate time and we will share that information with you once it is fully ready and mature to be shared.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Thank you all for joining us. Thank you all, the dais members. Good afternoon.